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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 5, 2011 16:04:17 GMT -6
DISCLAIMER:For anyone that hasn't read the book yet and doesn't want anything to be ruined for them, I suggest not reading this thread since spoilers will be much encouraged!
I've recently finished my second read through of Leroux's novel and I loved even more than the first time I read it. I think one of the best things about the book is that the book doesn't quite fit into any one genre. It's not quite a mystery, a horror, a thriller, a romance; and all of this confusion really brings you into Erik's world. A place that's not really only one thing.
What aspects of the book are your favourites? Lines, scenes, whole sections?
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Post by muirin007 on Dec 5, 2011 19:45:22 GMT -6
That's what I always loved about the book: It's like everything rolled into one. Talk about a great value!  Ooh, man, what a question! Hmm...well, I love the graveyard scene, of course. It's terribly romantic, but also eerie, like a danse macabre. And I can almost feel Erik's yearning to be near Christine. The climax, obviously, is brilliant. "The grasshopper hops jolly high!" And crazy Christine bangin' her head on the wall. Just that whole scene...GAH. It was like watching an action movie, and one thing after another keeps happening, and you're holding your breath, wondering if Erik's just going to blow everyone up or if Raoul and the Persian are going to die or if Christine will give in...Gaston Leroux was the original action man! Gotta love Erik calling the Persian a booby and tapping his heels on the boat to the beat of Kyrie Elesion. He's such a five-year-old sometimes. Of course, I'd say the most moving part of the entire novel is the ending. In my opinion, Erik's final monologue is one of the best in literature. Who DIDN'T get teary-eyed reading that? Even the Persian cried! It a strange way, it allows the novel to end on a high note, because Erik finally tasted the redemption he thought was so elusive. |
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Post by thecrazynye on Dec 5, 2011 19:55:27 GMT -6
I loved the book! It was amazing! I was really sucked into Erik's world and I go to school talking about "Erik this... and Erik that..." My friends think I'm crazy, because they're just thinking "Who's Erik?" I can only say that he is one of THE most interesting people that ever lived.
I'm in the middle of reading it for my second time, too!
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 5, 2011 20:13:57 GMT -6
Of course, I'd say the most moving part of the entire novel is the ending. In my opinion, Erik's final monologue is one of the best in literature. Who DIDN'T get teary-eyed reading that? Even the Persian cried! It a strange way, it allows the novel to end on a high note, because Erik finally tasted the redemption he thought was so elusive. Oh my goodness, yes! How happy he was just to kiss her little feet! I think by far the most moving part was when he spoke of their mixing their tears. That made me want to cry the second time through it. As crazy as Erik is still his love, no matter how strange, was such a pure thing... |
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wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
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Post by wulphe on Dec 6, 2011 1:13:54 GMT -6
My favorite scene from the book is definitely the the one following the Siren with the Persian. Pretty much every interaction between the two is golden. "That's all I have to tell you, and unless you are a great booby, it ought to be enough for you, except that you don't know how to take a hint!" :3
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Post by nessundorma345 on Dec 7, 2011 7:24:44 GMT -6
My favorite scene from the book is definitely the the one following the Siren with the Persian. Pretty much every interaction between the two is golden. "That's all I have to tell you, and unless you are a great booby, it ought to be enough for you, except that you don't know how to take a hint!" :3 I call all of my friends 'great booby' when i get mad, besides talking in the third person. That is also my favorite scene ––besides the chandelier scene. i love the way that the whole chandelier crash is written, because it actually dragged me in and made me feel confused and scared even when I knew exactly what was going on.  And of course the epic monologue. It is impossible for anyone who has read the rest of the book not to read it and weep by the time he says the words 'living bride'  |
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Post by briggspower on Apr 20, 2012 3:40:21 GMT -6
I really need help. Right now.
I'm furious. Why?
I read an horrible phrase "Erik didn't become more human after Christine's kiss. He just suffered her blackmail (because she kissed the phantom to free Raoul and run away with him) and then gave up. He gave up because he's tired of her betrayals"
That's the reason why I HATE the Italian fandom!
Erik let Christine go because
1) he FINALLY feels loved by someone
2) he is fully aware he can't make her happy
That's what I think.
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wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
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Post by wulphe on Apr 20, 2012 6:04:53 GMT -6
Honestly, I think it's a mix of the two concepts. Christine does care for Erik, but her main feeling even in the end is still pity and not love. I think Erik was aware in the back of his mind, because he's not an idiot, that Christine was pitying him and that she gave him that kiss on the forehead and turned the scorpion to save Raoul and NOT because she wants to be with Erik. But, Erik's gone way over the deep end by this point and is willing to grasp at straws. I think him letting Christine go was a mix between:
A) knowing that Christine really loves Raoul and not wanting to live with her knowing that (it would cause him pain), and
B) feeling guilty forcing her to choose him. He realizes that FORCING Christine to be with him will not make either of them happy.
It's not really what he wants and he doesn't want to hurt her either. Despite everything, he loves her, and that feeling of wanting what's best for her eventually wins out over the selfish/evil side of him. He sacrifices his dream of being with her, which would have been empty at that point anyway, so that she can be free.
So, in the end I think he's dying of love not because he feels loved, but because his love for her is killing him. BUT he's matured emotionally to the point where he's still happy because he knows she will be happy, and maybe even because he feels he did the right thing. He's still in pain over losing her, but it's a pain that signifies he's been redeemed and he's not going to die a monster that no one cares about.
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Post by briggspower on Apr 20, 2012 6:30:08 GMT -6
Honestly, I think it's a mix of the two concepts. Christine does care for Erik, but her main feeling even in the end is still pity and not love. I think Erik was aware in the back of his mind, because he's not an idiot, that Christine was pitying him and that she gave him that kiss on the forehead and turned the scorpion to save Raoul and NOT because she wants to be with Erik. But, Erik's gone way over the deep end by this point and is willing to grasp at straws. I think him letting Christine go was a mix between: A) knowing that Christine really loves Raoul and not wanting to live with her knowing that (it would cause him pain), and B) feeling guilty forcing her to choose him. He realizes that FORCING Christine to be with him will not make either of them happy. It's not really what he wants and he doesn't want to hurt her either. Despite everything, he loves her, and that feeling of wanting what's best for her eventually wins out over the selfish/evil side of him. He sacrifices his dream of being with her, which would have been empty at that point anyway, so that she can be free. So, in the end I think he's dying of love not because he feels loved, but because his love for her is killing him. BUT he's matured emotionally to the point where he's still happy because he knows she will be happy, and maybe even because he feels he did the right thing. He's still in pain over losing her, but it's a pain that signifies he's been redeemed and he's not going to die a monster that no one cares about. I agree with everything you said! I'm fully aware that Christine doesn't love erik the way she loves Raoul.... But... Saying the kiss was just a trick to deceive Erik and run away with the vicomte... Saying that erik let her go because he's tired of her... That made me feel very sad. |
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wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
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Post by wulphe on Apr 20, 2012 12:36:35 GMT -6
Honestly, I think it's a mix of the two concepts. Christine does care for Erik, but her main feeling even in the end is still pity and not love. I think Erik was aware in the back of his mind, because he's not an idiot, that Christine was pitying him and that she gave him that kiss on the forehead and turned the scorpion to save Raoul and NOT because she wants to be with Erik. But, Erik's gone way over the deep end by this point and is willing to grasp at straws. I think him letting Christine go was a mix between: A) knowing that Christine really loves Raoul and not wanting to live with her knowing that (it would cause him pain), and B) feeling guilty forcing her to choose him. He realizes that FORCING Christine to be with him will not make either of them happy. It's not really what he wants and he doesn't want to hurt her either. Despite everything, he loves her, and that feeling of wanting what's best for her eventually wins out over the selfish/evil side of him. He sacrifices his dream of being with her, which would have been empty at that point anyway, so that she can be free. So, in the end I think he's dying of love not because he feels loved, but because his love for her is killing him. BUT he's matured emotionally to the point where he's still happy because he knows she will be happy, and maybe even because he feels he did the right thing. He's still in pain over losing her, but it's a pain that signifies he's been redeemed and he's not going to die a monster that no one cares about. I agree with everything you said! I'm fully aware that Christine doesn't love erik the way she loves Raoul.... But... Saying the kiss was just a trick to deceive Erik and run away with the vicomte... Saying that erik let her go because he's tired of her... That made me feel very sad. I see what you mean by that. To me, Christine's kiss wasn't deception. I DO think she threw it in as a "cherry on top" strategy to convince Erik of her loyalty so he'd save Raoul. Mostly, I get a feeling of pity and resignation to her choice. She had no idea Erik would let her leave as well. Even after he saves Raoul, he doesn't let her go immediately... or really Raoul for that matter as he locks him up in the Communist's Dungeon for a bit. Or wait.. am I getting the series of events confused? I'm pretty sure it goes: Turn the Scorpion, or we all die! --> Ok, I turned the Scorpion, now Raoul is drowning to death! --> Please save him, I'll be a good wife! No, why should I? *lots of tears* *Christine kisses Erik's forehead* Hmm.. ok, you've convinced me. --> The Persian wakes up for a brief moment and sees Raoul and he are rescued and Christine refuses to talk and is being very despondent. --> Erik releases the Persian, but keeps Raoul in the dungeon for a bit. --> Erik shows up at the Persian's house and tells him Christine and Raoul are free, etc. If that's the case it makes it seem even more like Erik lets Christine go because he sees how unhappy she is with him and he realizes that forcing her to love him isn't going to work, and keeping her like this isn't what he wants. He certainly isn't tired of her. Her unhappy presence just causes both of them pain. |
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Post by briggspower on Apr 20, 2012 12:52:59 GMT -6
I agree with everything you said! I'm fully aware that Christine doesn't love erik the way she loves Raoul.... But... Saying the kiss was just a trick to deceive Erik and run away with the vicomte... Saying that erik let her go because he's tired of her... That made me feel very sad. I see what you mean by that. To me, Christine's kiss wasn't deception. I DO think she threw it in as a "cherry on top" strategy to convince Erik of her loyalty so he'd save Raoul. Mostly, I get a feeling of pity and resignation to her choice. She had no idea Erik would let her leave as well. Even after he saves Raoul, he doesn't let her go immediately... or really Raoul for that matter as he locks him up in the Communist's Dungeon for a bit. Or wait.. am I getting the series of events confused? I'm pretty sure it goes: Turn the Scorpion, or we all die! --> Ok, I turned the Scorpion, now Raoul is drowning to death! --> Please save him, I'll be a good wife! No, why should I? *lots of tears* *Christine kisses Erik's forehead* Hmm.. ok, you've convinced me. --> The Persian wakes up for a brief moment and sees Raoul and he are rescued and Christine refuses to talk and is being very despondent. --> Erik releases the Persian, but keeps Raoul in the dungeon for a bit. --> Erik shows up at the Persian's house and tells him Christine and Raoul are free, etc. If that's the case it makes it seem even more like Erik lets Christine go because he sees how unhappy she is with him and he realizes that forcing her to love him isn't going to work, and keeping her like this isn't what he wants. He certainly isn't tired of her. Her unhappy presence just causes both of them pain. I's so happy right now! Oh, and I wanted to talk of another part. When Christine came through the mirror, Erik was singing "come! And believe in me! Whose believe in me shall live! Walk! Whose hath believed in me shall never die!" I think it means "come here, in my world of music, where your soul will begin a journey into a strange, new world! Where the Light of Music will enlighten you! And the only one who made this possible it's ME! " I think that now Erik's vanity is completely showed! And not only for the comparison with Jesus |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Apr 20, 2012 13:45:49 GMT -6
I agree with everything you said! I'm fully aware that Christine doesn't love erik the way she loves Raoul.... But... Saying the kiss was just a trick to deceive Erik and run away with the vicomte... Saying that erik let her go because he's tired of her... That made me feel very sad. I see what you mean by that. To me, Christine's kiss wasn't deception. I DO think she threw it in as a "cherry on top" strategy to convince Erik of her loyalty so he'd save Raoul. Mostly, I get a feeling of pity and resignation to her choice. She had no idea Erik would let her leave as well. Even after he saves Raoul, he doesn't let her go immediately... or really Raoul for that matter as he locks him up in the Communist's Dungeon for a bit. Or wait.. am I getting the series of events confused? I'm pretty sure it goes: Turn the Scorpion, or we all die! --> Ok, I turned the Scorpion, now Raoul is drowning to death! --> Please save him, I'll be a good wife! No, why should I? *lots of tears* *Christine kisses Erik's forehead* Hmm.. ok, you've convinced me. --> The Persian wakes up for a brief moment and sees Raoul and he are rescued and Christine refuses to talk and is being very despondent. --> Erik releases the Persian, but keeps Raoul in the dungeon for a bit. --> Erik shows up at the Persian's house and tells him Christine and Raoul are free, etc. If that's the case it makes it seem even more like Erik lets Christine go because he sees how unhappy she is with him and he realizes that forcing her to love him isn't going to work, and keeping her like this isn't what he wants. He certainly isn't tired of her. Her unhappy presence just causes both of them pain. Christine kissed him AFTER he told her she and Raoul could go. As a good by kiss, kind of. Raoul was watching that kiss. |
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wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
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Post by wulphe on Apr 21, 2012 9:20:09 GMT -6
You're correct! I just reread the entire ending. I'm gonna go cry now. XD
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Post by briggspower on Apr 21, 2012 10:19:58 GMT -6
You're correct! I just reread the entire ending. I'm gonna go cry now. XD And I'm gonna kill the girls who said that stupid things... I'LL FIND THEM AND SLAY!!! FOR ERIK'S SAKE!! |
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wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
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Post by wulphe on Apr 22, 2012 9:56:33 GMT -6
You're correct! I just reread the entire ending. I'm gonna go cry now. XD And I'm gonna kill the girls who said that stupid things... I'LL FIND THEM AND SLAY!!! FOR ERIK'S SAKE!! Ok, done crying. I think I'll join you in your pursuit now! BURN THE WITCHES!! I mean.. er... YEAH! |
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