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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 7, 2011 10:12:49 GMT -6
I have to read it again, but I agree the beginning was great. And innards his mother, too. But a small part of me felt sorry for her being so destroyed that she couldn't love her child even if he was ugly. The worst part, in my oppinion, is the fact that she DID love him. She really DID, and she took way to long to realise. And when she finally did... he was gone. I so cried. It was all in vain. Erik running away, getting caught by the gypsies... the CAGE!!! And all the rest... stupid woman. I know!! And she couldn't even show the smallest bit of love like when he wanted a kiss for his birthday... And wanted to save one for later. That tore at me. Poor thing... |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 7, 2011 10:24:08 GMT -6
The worst part, in my oppinion, is the fact that she DID love him. She really DID, and she took way to long to realise. And when she finally did... he was gone. I so cried. It was all in vain. Erik running away, getting caught by the gypsies... the CAGE!!! And all the rest... stupid woman. I know!! And she couldn't even show the smallest bit of love like when he wanted a kiss for his birthday... And wanted to save one for later. That tore at me. Poor thing... I might sound stupid now, but if he was MY son... I'd smother him with kisses, because I'd know how little love he'd get from the mean world out there. I'd love him... And I'd die of shame, since he would be so much better at everything... exept writing perhaps. |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 7, 2011 12:46:02 GMT -6
I have to read it again, but I agree the beginning was great. And innards his mother, too. But a small part of me felt sorry for her being so destroyed that she couldn't love her child even if he was ugly. The worst part, in my oppinion, is the fact that she DID love him. She really DID, and she took way to long to realise. And when she finally did... he was gone. I so cried. It was all in vain. Erik running away, getting caught by the gypsies... the CAGE!!! And all the rest... stupid woman. It made me so mad that she finally loved him in the end, but after all she had done to abuse him he ran away and left without ever knowing that she was going to stay at home with him. And when he came back to the house to see her for one last time and she had died and Marie was trying to tell him that his mother had loved him...he didn't believe her. He went his whole life thinking that no one loved him, how much would it have changed him to know that his mother did, if he had stayed at home? Would it have changed anything? Could he have even forgiven her? |
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Post by muirin007 on Dec 7, 2011 21:34:46 GMT -6
The worst part, in my oppinion, is the fact that she DID love him. She really DID, and she took way to long to realise. And when she finally did... he was gone. I so cried. It was all in vain. Erik running away, getting caught by the gypsies... the CAGE!!! And all the rest... stupid woman. I know. I KNOW!!! That last part of his mother's narrative absolutely kills me. Because she did love him. She was spoiled and superficial, but once she cast all that aside, she realized what a beautiful child she had. And she mourned him until her death, which was incredibly surprising. And Erik running away to spare her from his existence...UGH.  |
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Post by muirin007 on Dec 7, 2011 21:38:37 GMT -6
Yeah, that was a part that made me...stop reading and go uhhh Whut? But I do really like Kay's book, the insight to the characters were amazing. I loved Giovanni's part because I thought one of the most interesting things about Kay's take on Erik was his totally unconscious sensuality. The fact that he had no idea he had this sort of effect on women. The way Luciana went head over heels for him (before the unmasking of course), the way the Khanum lusted after him, even Christine was under his spell. And his acerbic wit. I love his sense of humor and his little touches of kindness. That's one of my favorite parts of the book, and I think it makes Erik all the more endearing. He simply has no idea how elegant he is. I love that Kay didn't make him use this trait to his advantage, because Erik is definitely NOT a Don Juan. Kay's portrayal of Erik--darkly aristocratic with a gaunt sort of elegance--is a bit vampiric, in a way. Loved it. |
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Post by facetiousfiend on Dec 8, 2011 0:49:05 GMT -6
It is something of the Erik Bible in a way, the novel. Leroux's book tells of the one event at the opera house, and through that we see Erik as a man who has already gone through a multitude of tragedies and triumphs. He's untouchable to us, just as he is to Christine. A Genius on high to whom we cannot compare.
In Kay's novel, you get a real sense of Erik's struggle, his heartache and his life. You watch him grow, make mistakes, get pissy. The slight nuances, his sardonic wit: It's all beautifully written. I agree that Christine is portrayed quite like a withering flower on a desolate vine. But, she has her moments. She can't always be strong. No one can.
If anything, the novel gives you Erik's very soul. It's him, growing and changing. It's more than we get in Leroux's. Kay's novel is complementary to the original work. It does not try to best it and I adore that.
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 8, 2011 3:27:35 GMT -6
Kay's novel = The best written fanfiction EVER XD
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Post by salierisantfarm on Feb 8, 2012 11:09:34 GMT -6
It is something of the Erik Bible in a way, the novel. Leroux's book tells of the one event at the opera house, and through that we see Erik as a man who has already gone through a multitude of tragedies and triumphs. He's untouchable to us, just as he is to Christine. A Genius on high to whom we cannot compare. In Kay's novel, you get a real sense of Erik's struggle, his heartache and his life. You watch him grow, make mistakes, get pissy. The slight nuances, his sardonic wit: It's all beautifully written. I agree that Christine is portrayed quite like a withering flower on a desolate vine. But, she has her moments. She can't always be strong. No one can. If anything, the novel gives you Erik's very soul. It's him, growing and changing. It's more than we get in Leroux's. Kay's novel is complementary to the original work. It does not try to best it and I adore that. I cannot stress how much I agree with you here. I absolutely adore this book. It was my LIFE at the start of ninth grade. I actually really liked the ending, and simply ADORED what little we got to see of Charles. Raoul was thankfully not as much of an ass as he is in Leroux and Webber, and Erik... Oh, Erik. <3 |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Feb 8, 2012 12:40:44 GMT -6
 It is something of the Erik Bible in a way, the novel. Leroux's book tells of the one event at the opera house, and through that we see Erik as a man who has already gone through a multitude of tragedies and triumphs. He's untouchable to us, just as he is to Christine. A Genius on high to whom we cannot compare. In Kay's novel, you get a real sense of Erik's struggle, his heartache and his life. You watch him grow, make mistakes, get pissy. The slight nuances, his sardonic wit: It's all beautifully written. I agree that Christine is portrayed quite like a withering flower on a desolate vine. But, she has her moments. She can't always be strong. No one can. If anything, the novel gives you Erik's very soul. It's him, growing and changing. It's more than we get in Leroux's. Kay's novel is complementary to the original work. It does not try to best it and I adore that. I cannot stress how much I agree with you here. I absolutely adore this book. It was my LIFE at the start of ninth grade. I actually really liked the ending, and simply ADORED what little we got to see of Charles. Raoul was thankfully not as much of an ass as he is in Leroux and Webber, and Erik... Oh, Erik. <3 Raoul isn't an ass in Leroux novel >.< In Kay's book he even threw a tantrum at Christine which he never did in the original.
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Post by salierisantfarm on Feb 8, 2012 13:08:25 GMT -6
I cannot stress how much I agree with you here. I absolutely adore this book. It was my LIFE at the start of ninth grade. I actually really liked the ending, and simply ADORED what little we got to see of Charles. Raoul was thankfully not as much of an ass as he is in Leroux and Webber, and Erik... Oh, Erik. <3 Raoul isn't an ass in Leroux novel >.< In Kay's book he even threw a tantrum at Christine which he never did in the original. He is too an ass! He accuses Christine of sleeping around while Mama Valerius was in the room, using a conversation he eavesdropped upon as evidence. Then we get this bit of dialogue: Christine: M. De Chagny, that's the second time you've listened at my door. Raoul: I wasn't listening at the door, I was hiding behind the curtain in your room itself! Granted, I'm paraphrasing, but I will find the actual quote and several more besides if you need any more proof. |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Feb 8, 2012 16:53:53 GMT -6
Raoul isn't an ass in Leroux novel >.< In Kay's book he even threw a tantrum at Christine which he never did in the original. He is too an ass! He accuses Christine of sleeping around while Mama Valerius was in the room, using a conversation he eavesdropped upon as evidence. Then we get this bit of dialogue: Christine: M. De Chagny, that's the second time you've listened at my door. Raoul: I wasn't listening at the door, I was hiding behind the curtain in your room itself! Granted, I'm paraphrasing, but I will find the actual quote and several more besides if you need any more proof. He is not. He didn't eavesdrop on purpose! You'd listen too, if you'd hear a man's voice out of a lady's room that you know to be empty except for said lady! And he didn't accuse Christine of anything. He asked, if she was still virgin, that's a difference! And taking it from your point of view, then Erik would be the biggest ass ever, spending months behind that mirror, stalking Christine. |
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Post by salierisantfarm on Feb 8, 2012 17:10:01 GMT -6
He is too an ass! He accuses Christine of sleeping around while Mama Valerius was in the room, using a conversation he eavesdropped upon as evidence. Then we get this bit of dialogue: Christine: M. De Chagny, that's the second time you've listened at my door. Raoul: I wasn't listening at the door, I was hiding behind the curtain in your room itself! Granted, I'm paraphrasing, but I will find the actual quote and several more besides if you need any more proof. He is not. He didn't eavesdrop on purpose! You'd listen too, if you'd hear a man's voice out of a lady's room that you know to be empty except for said lady! And he didn't accuse Christine of anything. He asked, if she was still virgin, that's a difference! And taking it from your point of view, then Erik would be the biggest ass ever, spending months behind that mirror, stalking Christine. He is too, although you make some very valid points. You are right in that he did not eavesdrop on purpose the first time. However, what was intentional was his hiding in her dressing room. As for your statement that accusing someone of sleeping around and asking whether or not they are still a virgin are different things, I believe you are both right and wrong. While your statement holds true today, one must consider that in Christine's time a lady was expected to remain chaste until marriage, and she was looked upon as a slut if she did not. I find Erik not guilty of being an ass by reason of insanity. |
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Post by asianorange on Feb 8, 2012 17:51:08 GMT -6
I find Erik not guilty of being an ass by reason of insanity. Hahahaha.... |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Feb 9, 2012 4:58:32 GMT -6
He is not. He didn't eavesdrop on purpose! You'd listen too, if you'd hear a man's voice out of a lady's room that you know to be empty except for said lady! And he didn't accuse Christine of anything. He asked, if she was still virgin, that's a difference! And taking it from your point of view, then Erik would be the biggest ass ever, spending months behind that mirror, stalking Christine. He is too, although you make some very valid points. You are right in that he did not eavesdrop on purpose the first time. However, what was intentional was his hiding in her dressing room. As for your statement that accusing someone of sleeping around and asking whether or not they are still a virgin are different things, I believe you are both right and wrong. While your statement holds true today, one must consider that in Christine's time a lady was expected to remain chaste until marriage, and she was looked upon as a slut if she did not. I find Erik not guilty of being an ass by reason of insanity. He is not. Raoul had every right to ask, since Christine was wearing Eriks ring, which could mean she was married, although she said she'd never marry. Besides, Raoul asked, because he believed Christine to be used by a stranger. Not Christine being an easy woman. And I find Raoul not guilty of being an ass by reason of love, which is the strongest kind of insanity. |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Feb 12, 2012 18:42:19 GMT -6
He is too, although you make some very valid points. You are right in that he did not eavesdrop on purpose the first time. However, what was intentional was his hiding in her dressing room. As for your statement that accusing someone of sleeping around and asking whether or not they are still a virgin are different things, I believe you are both right and wrong. While your statement holds true today, one must consider that in Christine's time a lady was expected to remain chaste until marriage, and she was looked upon as a slut if she did not. I find Erik not guilty of being an ass by reason of insanity. He is not. Raoul had every right to ask, since Christine was wearing Eriks ring, which could mean she was married, although she said she'd never marry. Besides, Raoul asked, because he believed Christine to be used by a stranger. Not Christine being an easy woman. And I find Raoul not guilty of being an ass by reason of love, which is the strongest kind of insanity. Chiming in.... Raoul is NOT my favourite character by far and though I may say in passionate explanation of why Christine should have stayed with Erik that I hate the boy, I do not actually hate Raoul. What I do hate, is when people write their books or their fan-fiction and make Raoul a jerk on purpose just so you want Christine to be with Erik. The choice was supposed to be hard. Wouldn't be that hard if Raoul was a jerk and Erik was oh so sweet. No. Erik is a murderous psycho which can lead him to being a jerk (i.e. throwing her to the ground) or he can be disgustingly sweet (kissing her feet). Raoul is a young twitter-patted kid that has absolutely no idea what's going on ever. Which can lead him to sticking his foot in his mouth and not really believing everything Christine says, but still he can be sweet. But he's not really a jerk. Maybe a little stupid sometimes but not a jerk or an ass. |
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