|
|
Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 5, 2011 20:34:23 GMT -6
DISCLAIMER: If you haven't read Susan Kay's Phantom but would like to, I suggest not reading this thread as it will contain spoilers. However, I highly recommend that you read it. As it is amazing.
*******
Thus far, out of all the "phan-fiction" I've read, Susan Kay's is by far the best. I love how she captured Erik, I love how she let you feel Christine's depression and how much Erik really meant to her. And need I mention how amazing The Persian was??
|
|
|
|
Post by dragonessdeanna on Dec 5, 2011 20:37:45 GMT -6
This book was just too amazing! =D
|
|
leonore
Audience
Leonore likes to procrastinate in the arts of avatar making.
Posts: 8
|
Post by leonore on Dec 5, 2011 21:43:12 GMT -6
I...didn't really like it.
*dodges brick*
Lemme rephrase that. I loved it until Christine showed up. But I just couldn't like the way Kay wrote her; she just struck me as a simpering, constantly awe-struck, passive child. You can argue that she's not too active in Leroux, too, but there, she at least has strong emotions beyond love and awe. She tries to control her fate, even if it means suicide. She gets genuinely hysterical.
The impression I got was that Kay!Christine, instead of running or protesting in any way when Erik gets crazy, just stares and goes, "Oh. He is frightening," standing there like a deer in the headlights. Granted, an aspect of fear; but she's just a very passive, static character here, in my humble opinion. I haven't read this in a while, so forgive me if I've missed anything where she does do more, but this was my general impression back when I first read it.
Even though Christine sort of ruined the later parts of the book for me, the Persian is badass. His whole narrative is easily my favorite part of the book.
|
|
|
|
Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 5, 2011 21:49:05 GMT -6
Actually, thinking back, I can totally see where you get that impression of Christine. And I have to agree, she didn't really do much when Erik got mad. Hmm. I never thought of that before. I did still like her though. Except she got a little overly enthusiastic over some of Erik's music, that being his intention or not!
|
|
|
|
Post by shadowsytem on Dec 5, 2011 23:10:01 GMT -6
i absolutely loved this novel, all characters except the "small jar" lady. she was just so bloomin' annoying i wanted to slap her upside the head and go "HE DOESNT WANT YOU!!!!" but i loveErik and Nadir and Giovanni and everyone. it left me awe struck
|
|
|
|
Post by muirin007 on Dec 6, 2011 0:52:35 GMT -6
I...didn't really like it. *dodges brick* Lemme rephrase that. I loved it until Christine showed up. But I just couldn't like the way Kay wrote her; she just struck me as a simpering, constantly awe-struck, passive child. You can argue that she's not too active in Leroux, too, but there, she at least has strong emotions beyond love and awe. She tries to control her fate, even if it means suicide. She gets genuinely hysterical. The impression I got was that Kay!Christine, instead of running or protesting in any way when Erik gets crazy, just stares and goes, "Oh. He is frightening," standing there like a deer in the headlights. Granted, an aspect of fear; but she's just a very passive, static character here, in my humble opinion. I haven't read this in a while, so forgive me if I've missed anything where she does do more, but this was my general impression back when I first read it. Even though Christine sort of ruined the later parts of the book for me, the Persian is badass. His whole narrative is easily my favorite part of the book. I totally get what you're saying. Christine does come across as extraordinarily weak in Kay's version, and there were times when I wanted Erik to just slap her across the face, Three Stooges style. I think I did prefer some of Leroux Christine's reactions...if you think about it, they were more logical. I mean, for goodness' sakes, if you were trapped in a cellar with a raving lunatic, you'd definitely freak out. But at the same time, I'll always love Kay's novel the most because it gives such insight into the characters. AND YES, NADIR FOR THE WIN. Holy MACKEREL, is that guy awesome, or what? I LOVE him. I feel like he should just have his own sitcom so we could all sit there and bask in his kick-butt..ing. |
|
|
|
Post by muirin007 on Dec 6, 2011 0:58:29 GMT -6
Actually, thinking back, I can totally see where you get that impression of Christine. And I have to agree, she didn't really do much when Erik got mad. Hmm. I never thought of that before. I did still like her though. Except she got a little overly enthusiastic over some of Erik's music, that being his intention or not! You know something? That was the one part of the book where I couldn't help but think, "Now, is this really necessary?" Maybe I'm just a prude, but I was sitting there going, "Wait...did she just...oh. Oh." I mean, I understand that Erik's music is extraordinarily evocative and powerful. But wasn't there a different way to show that? Other than, you know...writhing? Granted, there's obviously a sexual attraction between Erik and Christine, no matter what version. Erik is enraptured by Christine's beauty and womanliness, and Christine is enraptured by Erik's dark elegance and unconscious sensuality. Of course that's going to play a role in their relationship. And of course, you can be very moved by a piece of music. Maybe just not... that moved. |
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 6, 2011 2:53:20 GMT -6
Actually, thinking back, I can totally see where you get that impression of Christine. And I have to agree, she didn't really do much when Erik got mad. Hmm. I never thought of that before. I did still like her though. Except she got a little overly enthusiastic over some of Erik's music, that being his intention or not! You know something? That was the one part of the book where I couldn't help but think, "Now, is this really necessary?" Maybe I'm just a prude, but I was sitting there going, "Wait...did she just...oh. Oh." I mean, I understand that Erik's music is extraordinarily evocative and powerful. But wasn't there a different way to show that? Other than, you know...writhing? Granted, there's obviously a sexual attraction between Erik and Christine, no matter what version. Erik is enraptured by Christine's beauty and womanliness, and Christine is enraptured by Erik's dark elegance and unconscious sensuality. Of course that's going to play a role in their relationship. And of course, you can be very moved by a piece of music. Maybe just not... that moved. Yeah, that was a part that made me...stop reading and go uhhh Whut? But I do really like Kay's book, the insight to the characters were amazing. I loved Giovanni's part because I thought one of the most interesting things about Kay's take on Erik was his totally unconscious sensuality. The fact that he had no idea he had this sort of effect on women. The way Luciana went head over heels for him (before the unmasking of course), the way the Khanum lusted after him, even Christine was under his spell. And his acerbic wit. I love his sense of humor and his little touches of kindness. And his banter with the Persian! They were the best of frenemies. I also thought she handled Christine pretty well. I thought it was a much different take on Christine, that at some points I thought she had just as much loose marbles as Erik which I never thought of before. I always thought of her as a wooden character instead of someone still grieving over her father's death. The Persian did kick ass. I felt bad for him and his son though. |
|
|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 6, 2011 5:51:12 GMT -6
I really do like the Kay novel and honestly, she combined the Leroux novel and the musical and added her own stuff. So... I really understand her Christine. in the musical she IS a deer in the headlight, the only thing she ever does is grab Eriks mask constantly, weep all the time and... I don't like her anyway. XD
But Giovanni, I so loved him. Why did he have to tell Erik to take the Mask off? WHY?
|
|
|
|
Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 6, 2011 9:19:44 GMT -6
Actually, thinking back, I can totally see where you get that impression of Christine. And I have to agree, she didn't really do much when Erik got mad. Hmm. I never thought of that before. I did still like her though. Except she got a little overly enthusiastic over some of Erik's music, that being his intention or not! You know something? That was the one part of the book where I couldn't help but think, "Now, is this really necessary?" Maybe I'm just a prude, but I was sitting there going, "Wait...did she just...oh. Oh." I mean, I understand that Erik's music is extraordinarily evocative and powerful. But wasn't there a different way to show that? Other than, you know...writhing? Granted, there's obviously a sexual attraction between Erik and Christine, no matter what version. Erik is enraptured by Christine's beauty and womanliness, and Christine is enraptured by Erik's dark elegance and unconscious sensuality. Of course that's going to play a role in their relationship. And of course, you can be very moved by a piece of music. Maybe just not... that moved. Ha then you are no more prudish than I! I had very much the same reaction... Of course, I didn't really feel that Erik would "rape her with his music" either. Maybe "make love to her through music" but yeah. I dunno, I just feel that no matter how animalistic he maybe and how much he would throw her around that's where he draws the line. Seems it always had been. |
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 6, 2011 12:36:41 GMT -6
But Giovanni, I so loved him. Why did he have to tell Erik to take the Mask off? WHY? Giovanni love! Yay! Yeah...why did he have to do that? And his daughter annoyed me... And the Persia part was amazing...just agreeing with everyone since I didn't put that in my other post...curse my absent-mindedness. |
|
|
|
Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 6, 2011 19:11:35 GMT -6
But Giovanni, I so loved him. Why did he have to tell Erik to take the Mask off? WHY? Giovanni love! Yay! Yeah...why did he have to do that? And his daughter annoyed me... And the Persia part was amazing...just agreeing with everyone since I didn't put that in my other post...curse my absent-mindedness. Erik was way too good for that girl anyway. Not that means she should have meant with such a terrible demise... I loved Giovanni, too! |
|
|
|
Post by allaphaidole on Dec 6, 2011 21:11:01 GMT -6
I didn't really like the end of the book but the scene when Raul was going to fetch Christine after she promised to visit Erik. I actually got teary around this part because from what Nadir told Raul, Erik thought that she would never come back and destroyed his home. I convinced one of my sisters to read and she agreed that the end was kinda of blah. But the BEST part of the book was the beginning with his childhood. I've read it so many times that the spin had to be tapped together because it was falling apart. And having little nieces and 2 nephews from age 1-5, I wanted to smack Madeleine around so bad for mistreating poor lil' Erik!! Marie behaved more motherly than Madeleine and she was the servant! And that is why Marie is such an amazing character and thank her greatly for smacking Madeleine for me, I mean, I cheered out loud when I read it! Oh geeze I'm rambling X( But I mean really! Madeleine was a meany and I nearly had a heart attack after she flung her NEW BORN BABY! That is a big no no! Ugly or not , you don't throw babies!......ok I'm done ranting now...
|
|
|
|
Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 6, 2011 22:27:26 GMT -6
I have to read it again, but I agree the beginning was great. And innards his mother, too. But a small part of me felt sorry for her being so destroyed that she couldn't love her child even if he was ugly.
|
|
|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 7, 2011 5:22:26 GMT -6
I have to read it again, but I agree the beginning was great. And innards his mother, too. But a small part of me felt sorry for her being so destroyed that she couldn't love her child even if he was ugly. The worst part, in my oppinion, is the fact that she DID love him. She really DID, and she took way to long to realise. And when she finally did... he was gone. I so cried. It was all in vain. Erik running away, getting caught by the gypsies... the CAGE!!! And all the rest... stupid woman. |
|
