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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 16, 2011 15:22:58 GMT -6
Hmm...I don't know if he stops her from singing. I mean I never got that from the books I've read. I mean if she marries him and he's a Vicomte, maybe the social rules of the time would have stopped her from gracing the stage, if she was going to be a "proper" Vicomtess. But in Leroux's book they run away somewhere more North and I'm guessing Raoul doesn't return to Paris society so who knows? Maybe she does continue singing. In Kay's novel it seemed more like after she leaves Erik, it seems more like she just didn't seem inspired to sing after she um...leaves...(I don't want to spoil the end for anyone...which is why I'm skirting the ending). Considering society back then, and Raoul being the younger brother and really having no inheritance to speak of, his marriage to Christine would've been terribly frowned upon. It's no wonder that they ran away to the North - they probably would've been shunned by the higher class, Raoul marrying an Opera singer. I think that's one of the main reasons why I do love the character of Raoul. He was willing to go through all of that to marry Christine, and that takes both bravery and a hell of a lot of love. I admit, I was a fervent Raoul basher after watching the 2004 hunkalicious Gerry!Phantom, but after I read the books and watched all the different adaptations, Raoul just grows more and more on me. I honestly think that Raoul is wonderful for Christine. I hate what ALW did to his character in LND. Kay's novel makes me evn more sympathetic and admiring of Raoul as a person. I won't spoil the end, but you'll understand what I mean if you read it. It takes a truly good person with a huge heart to do what Raoul did. You just made me like Raoul a lot more. Maybe I am biased by all those movies. Normaly he is an absolute Idiot there or (most of the time) has nothing to do with the real raoul from the book. I feel guilty for forgetting very often how sweet he is and how concerned for Christine... |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 16, 2011 18:49:38 GMT -6
Considering society back then, and Raoul being the younger brother and really having no inheritance to speak of, his marriage to Christine would've been terribly frowned upon. It's no wonder that they ran away to the North - they probably would've been shunned by the higher class, Raoul marrying an Opera singer. I think that's one of the main reasons why I do love the character of Raoul. He was willing to go through all of that to marry Christine, and that takes both bravery and a hell of a lot of love. I admit, I was a fervent Raoul basher after watching the 2004 hunkalicious Gerry!Phantom, but after I read the books and watched all the different adaptations, Raoul just grows more and more on me. I honestly think that Raoul is wonderful for Christine. I hate what ALW did to his character in LND. Kay's novel makes me evn more sympathetic and admiring of Raoul as a person. I won't spoil the end, but you'll understand what I mean if you read it. It takes a truly good person with a huge heart to do what Raoul did. You just made me like Raoul a lot more. Maybe I am biased by all those movies. Normaly he is an absolute Idiot there or (most of the time) has nothing to do with the real raoul from the book. I feel guilty for forgetting very often how sweet he is and how concerned for Christine... Honestly, Leroux and Kay's Raoul are the only ones I like. And if you get a good actor ALW's in the original isn't bad either (tho he tends to irriate me otherwise). In fact I saw on brilliant Raoul and I believe he went on to play the Phantom, but he really made you feel the confusion of the character and how he wanted to save Christine pretty much from herself he just really had no idea how to do so. I mean the guy is supposed to be only twenty, so he's still a kid. |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 16, 2011 20:01:18 GMT -6
Honestly, Leroux and Kay's Raoul are the only ones I like. And if you get a good actor ALW's in the original isn't bad either (tho he tends to irriate me otherwise). In fact I saw on brilliant Raoul and I believe he went on to play the Phantom, but he really made you feel the confusion of the character and how he wanted to save Christine pretty much from herself he just really had no idea how to do so. I mean the guy is supposed to be only twenty, so he's still a kid. I didn't mind Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the 2004 movie. Considering Wilson can actually SING...and he's a tenor and he was very earnest and kind. He portrayed the character as very gentle, (although kind of dumb at times), not very pretentious and actually kind of weak, very confused too. But then I saw Raoul on Broadway and it was a very different portrayal of the same character. I thought the actual show Raoul was a lot more pompous, and demanding. And he was more of a baritone which surprised me the first time I had ever seen the show. And a little more irritating. Although, Leroux's Raoul actually irritated me more. His constant whining and wailing and sighing over Christine grated on my nerves. I just wanted to slap him and say BE A MAN. But I think because I saw Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the movie and he did a pretty good job, I still hold on to that image of Raoul, as the guy who really is a gentle soul and really loves Christine. So I can't really hate him or bash on him...although I do hate his hair in the 2004 movie. |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 16, 2011 20:21:17 GMT -6
Honestly, Leroux and Kay's Raoul are the only ones I like. And if you get a good actor ALW's in the original isn't bad either (tho he tends to irriate me otherwise). In fact I saw on brilliant Raoul and I believe he went on to play the Phantom, but he really made you feel the confusion of the character and how he wanted to save Christine pretty much from herself he just really had no idea how to do so. I mean the guy is supposed to be only twenty, so he's still a kid. I didn't mind Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the 2004 movie. Considering Wilson can actually SING...and he's a tenor and he was very earnest and kind. He portrayed the character as very gentle, (although kind of dumb at times), not very pretentious and actually kind of weak, very confused too. But then I saw Raoul on Broadway and it was a very different portrayal of the same character. I thought the actual show Raoul was a lot more pompous, and demanding. And he was more of a baritone which surprised me the first time I had ever seen the show. And a little more irritating. Although, Leroux's Raoul actually irritated me more. His constant whining and wailing and sighing over Christine grated on my nerves. I just wanted to slap him and say BE A MAN. But I think because I saw Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the movie and he did a pretty good job, I still hold on to that image of Raoul, as the guy who really is a gentle soul and really loves Christine. So I can't really hate him or bash on him...although I do hate his hair in the 2004 movie. Ha yeah, he has NOTHING on Phillippe's hair. But I don't really care for Raoul. Probably because I first heard the London cast and Steve Barton plays a slightly pompous Raoul how thought Christine was a little crazy and made her do things she didn't want to do. Not that every Raoul doesn't have the same lines to sing but thats the way he made it sound. |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 16, 2011 21:18:55 GMT -6
But I don't really care for Raoul. Probably because I first heard the London cast and Steve Barton plays a slightly pompous Raoul how thought Christine was a little crazy and made her do things she didn't want to do. Not that every Raoul doesn't have the same lines to sing but thats the way he made it sound. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean! For some reason Patrick Wilson sang those same lines really non-pompous-ly...and then I heard them again at the Broadway show and that Raoul sang them REALLY pompously! (I think I'm using pompously too much...I don't think that's a word...is it?) Like when he practically screams out "CHRISTINE I LOVE YOU" at the end of the "All I Ask of You" part. It kind of just threw me for a loop since Wilson sings it really really softly. |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 16, 2011 23:52:46 GMT -6
But I don't really care for Raoul. Probably because I first heard the London cast and Steve Barton plays a slightly pompous Raoul how thought Christine was a little crazy and made her do things she didn't want to do. Not that every Raoul doesn't have the same lines to sing but thats the way he made it sound. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean! For some reason Patrick Wilson sang those same lines really non-pompous-ly...and then I heard them again at the Broadway show and that Raoul sang them REALLY pompously! (I think I'm using pompously too much...I don't think that's a word...is it?) Like when he practically screams out "CHRISTINE I LOVE YOU" at the end of the "All I Ask of You" part. It kind of just threw me for a loop since Wilson sings it really really softly. The biggest annoyance I have with Raoul lines are delieverance would be the line "It was a dream and nothing more," "You said yourself he was nothing but a man," "Christine, Christine, don't think that I don't care, but every hope and every prayer rests on you now." There are a few others but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Anyway, depending on how those lines are said they can sound sweet and confused or seriously condesending and "get your act together woman." |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 17, 2011 0:07:33 GMT -6
The biggest annoyance I have with Raoul lines are delieverance would be the line "It was a dream and nothing more," "You said yourself he was nothing but a man," "Christine, Christine, don't think that I don't care, but every hope and every prayer rests on you now." There are a few others but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Anyway, depending on how those lines are said they can sound sweet and confused or seriously condesending and "get your act together woman." Exactly! Yeah, seriously. I mean Wilson sang those lines really really softly and with, I don't know, a warmth to them. Like he really cared about her. Knew she was scared, wanted to provide comfort. The lines that bother me are "We have all been blind and yet the answer is staring us in the face. This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend...We shall play his game but remember we hold the ace, for if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend." Because in the show he sings them really really like he does not care one whit about her safety at all. Singing it all blustery and loud while she's sitting there scared out of her mind. I thought they handled that part pretty well in the movie because I never got the feeling that THAT Raoul was putting Christine's life at risk on purpose and didn't care at all, I thought he felt really bad about it which is why he was telling them all while she wasn't THERE. I mean considering he's only a boy and doesn't know what else to do, I guess I can understand him having to put up a front so that he seems strong. But still...the way he sings those lines in the show, it's like he's practically prancing with joy, practically mad with glee at the fact that he thought of a plan that would trap the Phantom, I can almost see him rubbing his hands together, giggling madly to himself as he plots with the managers...(which ends up not working anyway...) |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 17, 2011 0:20:37 GMT -6
The biggest annoyance I have with Raoul lines are delieverance would be the line "It was a dream and nothing more," "You said yourself he was nothing but a man," "Christine, Christine, don't think that I don't care, but every hope and every prayer rests on you now." There are a few others but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Anyway, depending on how those lines are said they can sound sweet and confused or seriously condesending and "get your act together woman." Exactly! Yeah, seriously. I mean Wilson sang those lines really really softly and with, I don't know, a warmth to them. Like he really cared about her. Knew she was scared, wanted to provide comfort. The lines that bother me are "We have all been blind and yet the answer is staring us in the face. This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend...We shall play his game but remember we hold the ace, for if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend." Because in the show he sings them really really like he does not care one whit about her safety at all. Singing it all blustery and loud while she's sitting there scared out of her mind. I thought they handled that part pretty well in the movie because I never got the feeling that THAT Raoul was putting Christine's life at risk on purpose and didn't care at all, I thought he felt really bad about it which is why he was telling them all while she wasn't THERE. I mean considering he's only a boy and doesn't know what else to do, I guess I can understand him having to put up a front so that he seems strong. But still...the way he sings those lines in the show, it's like he's practically prancing with joy, practically mad with glee at the fact that he thought of a plan that would trap the Phantom, I can almost see him rubbing his hands together, giggling madly to himself as he plots with the managers...(which ends up not working anyway...) Oh yeah. The relish with which he sings "Remember now we hold the ace!" just makes me giggle. Stage Raoul that is. I can't say I remember too much about Patrick Wilson's Raoul other than he remind me of the prince at the end of Beauty and the Beast. I really didn't like the movie. I tried watching it not too long ago and all I could do was yell at the TV. That poor TV, probably scared the thing... Anyway, I think that's probably because (aside from, Gerard Butler playing my Phantom...) I had seen the play previously and was comparing it to that... |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 17, 2011 11:33:14 GMT -6
Oh yeah. The relish with which he sings "Remember now we hold the ace!" just makes me giggle. Stage Raoul that is. I can't say I remember too much about Patrick Wilson's Raoul other than he remind me of the prince at the end of Beauty and the Beast. I really didn't like the movie. I tried watching it not too long ago and all I could do was yell at the TV. That poor TV, probably scared the thing... Anyway, I think that's probably because (aside from, Gerard Butler playing my Phantom...) I had seen the play previously and was comparing it to that... Yeah, I saw the movie first so I had nothing to compare it to...so I sat through the whole thing. It was good that I did considering it really introduced me to Phantom of the Opera for the first time. But when I saw the stage show...well the movie just didn't cut it for me. But...I had no other choice but to watch it considering I loved the stage show and couldn't see it every...day....It got kinda bad...where I could sing every note from beginning to end. Which is why I've seen it...quite a lot. You should try watching it just to see how Raoul is portrayed. Like I said, he's kind of dumb...but he's sweet. And he sings really well. For that little bit he does sing. Just fast-forward through the bad Gerik parts. Haha. HAHA. He DOES kinda look like the Beast when the Beast turned human. |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 17, 2011 14:37:12 GMT -6
Honestly, Leroux and Kay's Raoul are the only ones I like. And if you get a good actor ALW's in the original isn't bad either (tho he tends to irriate me otherwise). In fact I saw on brilliant Raoul and I believe he went on to play the Phantom, but he really made you feel the confusion of the character and how he wanted to save Christine pretty much from herself he just really had no idea how to do so. I mean the guy is supposed to be only twenty, so he's still a kid. I didn't mind Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the 2004 movie. Considering Wilson can actually SING...and he's a tenor and he was very earnest and kind. He portrayed the character as very gentle, (although kind of dumb at times), not very pretentious and actually kind of weak, very confused too. But then I saw Raoul on Broadway and it was a very different portrayal of the same character. I thought the actual show Raoul was a lot more pompous, and demanding. And he was more of a baritone which surprised me the first time I had ever seen the show. And a little more irritating. Although, Leroux's Raoul actually irritated me more. His constant whining and wailing and sighing over Christine grated on my nerves. I just wanted to slap him and say BE A MAN. What I really like about Kay's Raoul is this one moment where he snaps. Don't know if I'm spoiling here but... in the End... when Christine wants to go... there... and he DOESN'T want her to.. and he just goes from whiny lovesick puppy to... BAMM!! Know what I mean? |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 17, 2011 23:13:26 GMT -6
I didn't mind Patrick Wilson as Raoul in the 2004 movie. Considering Wilson can actually SING...and he's a tenor and he was very earnest and kind. He portrayed the character as very gentle, (although kind of dumb at times), not very pretentious and actually kind of weak, very confused too. But then I saw Raoul on Broadway and it was a very different portrayal of the same character. I thought the actual show Raoul was a lot more pompous, and demanding. And he was more of a baritone which surprised me the first time I had ever seen the show. And a little more irritating. Although, Leroux's Raoul actually irritated me more. His constant whining and wailing and sighing over Christine grated on my nerves. I just wanted to slap him and say BE A MAN. What I really like about Kay's Raoul is this one moment where he snaps. Don't know if I'm spoiling here but... in the End... when Christine wants to go... there... and he DOESN'T want her to.. and he just goes from whiny lovesick puppy to... BAMM!! Know what I mean? He had a lot of believable personality traits in Kay's novel. I liked that about him. |
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Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 18, 2011 2:18:03 GMT -6
What I really like about Kay's Raoul is this one moment where he snaps. Don't know if I'm spoiling here but... in the End... when Christine wants to go... there... and he DOESN'T want her to.. and he just goes from whiny lovesick puppy to... BAMM!! Know what I mean? He had a lot of believable personality traits in Kay's novel. I liked that about him. I did too... but at the same time, they made me love Erik even more and I though I'd never ever be abel to actually like Raoul because all he does is getting in the way. But talking about him here, reminds me of his good points. XD I sound... weird, don't I? |
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Post by nijil-xnv on Dec 18, 2011 11:35:39 GMT -6
He had a lot of believable personality traits in Kay's novel. I liked that about him. I did too... but at the same time, they made me love Erik even more and I though I'd never ever be abel to actually like Raoul because all he does is getting in the way. But talking about him here, reminds me of his good points. XD I sound... weird, don't I? No. I was able to reflect on him being not a total idiot as well. But I still think Erik and Christine are better suited in their strangeness. They'd be that couple that always argues over their genius, but in a good way. =p |
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Post by asianorange on Dec 18, 2011 17:04:20 GMT -6
What I really like about Kay's Raoul is this one moment where he snaps. Don't know if I'm spoiling here but... in the End... when Christine wants to go... there... and he DOESN'T want her to.. and he just goes from whiny lovesick puppy to... BAMM!! Know what I mean? Yeah seriously. I mean at least he becomes a man...geez. Haha |
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