|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 28, 2011 15:30:38 GMT -6
I think there has to be a bit of Kays Erik in Lerouxs Erik too, since I cannot imagine a Man talking in third person, wearing fake noses and black masks and stalking sopranos in Persia. He had to be more debonair back then. I mean, okay, still wearing a mask and all, but... Lerouxs Erik comes across as a little child asking for love. Desperate, alone, mad with love and grief. But he was young once. And besides, do you think Kay would have been as much read if she hadn't "Sherlocked" Erik a bit? That's what the musical did too. And she composed her story out of the original novel, the musical and some other adaptations. Err.. I don't think there has to be a little Kay in Leroux. Why did he have to be more debonair back in Persia? Nothing required him to be. He was contracted to build a palace and a torture chamber, and used as an assassin, likely with little other social contact. Talking in third person doesn't seem unreasonable for someone who was basically the Shah's tool. Much of Kerik's past was made up following tiny hints that Leroux gave, or from ALW, or original. I agree that Erik wouldn't have been chasing sopranos in Persia, but what would have prevented him from wearing masks and false noses? He also doesn't talk in third person all the time, nor does he do it because he's angry. Psychologically speaking, when someone speaks in third person, the main reason for it is to separate themselves from reality or from their body. It's an identity disorder and a form of escapism. Usually when they aren't using third person speech, they're "role playing" their own personality, or whichever personality is suitable for the moment, and it helps to detach their emotions from everything their body is doing. Either that or they have multiple identities, like Gollum in LotR, but Erik doesn't seem to. Part of the reason Erik acts like a child some times may be from his lack of true (normal) social development, and/or his lack of sympathy for other people, and/or him role playing. He's definitely not a child inside, and I think he puts up a bit of an act because he has no social restrictions and it's fun for him. It creeps the Persian out, but why should Erik care about that? Also, if he is bipolar, such a display could be the result of a manic episode. Mania can make a normal, socially developed person completely ignore social norms during their "high". Think of the feeling when you're really hyper and act like an idiot, now multiply that by 10. To me, Lerik doesn't seem like a child asking for love, he seems like a very damaged individual who's coming apart at the seams over love and he doesn't really have the ability to handle it. He's pretty much in the midst of a nasty breakdown. Everything in his world is different because of Christine. He's creepy and psychotic, not squishy and innocent. Eh.. I don't think the musical "Sherlocked" Erik. More likely it "Webbered" Erik, playing out the similarities between ALW's love of Sarah Brightman and Erik's love of Christine. What greater inspiration to an artist than love? XD I'd certainly LOVE to read a first-person history of Erik without "Sherlocking" him. I can see why people like it in Kay, because I like Sherlock in Sherlock! Lol. I think there's an audience out there who'd appreciate a true-Leroux Erik though. It might not be AS popular, just like the 2004 Gerard movie is more popular than many other versions, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. Each to their own oppinion, I say. I like Erik. And I can say, I like him the way he is for me, since Leroux left much to guess and imagine. So for me there's no reason to debate ^.^ |
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 28, 2011 15:53:29 GMT -6
Err.. I don't think there has to be a little Kay in Leroux. Why did he have to be more debonair back in Persia? Nothing required him to be. He was contracted to build a palace and a torture chamber, and used as an assassin, likely with little other social contact. Talking in third person doesn't seem unreasonable for someone who was basically the Shah's tool. Much of Kerik's past was made up following tiny hints that Leroux gave, or from ALW, or original. I agree that Erik wouldn't have been chasing sopranos in Persia, but what would have prevented him from wearing masks and false noses? He also doesn't talk in third person all the time, nor does he do it because he's angry. Psychologically speaking, when someone speaks in third person, the main reason for it is to separate themselves from reality or from their body. It's an identity disorder and a form of escapism. Usually when they aren't using third person speech, they're "role playing" their own personality, or whichever personality is suitable for the moment, and it helps to detach their emotions from everything their body is doing. Either that or they have multiple identities, like Gollum in LotR, but Erik doesn't seem to. Part of the reason Erik acts like a child some times may be from his lack of true (normal) social development, and/or his lack of sympathy for other people, and/or him role playing. He's definitely not a child inside, and I think he puts up a bit of an act because he has no social restrictions and it's fun for him. It creeps the Persian out, but why should Erik care about that? Also, if he is bipolar, such a display could be the result of a manic episode. Mania can make a normal, socially developed person completely ignore social norms during their "high". Think of the feeling when you're really hyper and act like an idiot, now multiply that by 10. To me, Lerik doesn't seem like a child asking for love, he seems like a very damaged individual who's coming apart at the seams over love and he doesn't really have the ability to handle it. He's pretty much in the midst of a nasty breakdown. Everything in his world is different because of Christine. He's creepy and psychotic, not squishy and innocent. Eh.. I don't think the musical "Sherlocked" Erik. More likely it "Webbered" Erik, playing out the similarities between ALW's love of Sarah Brightman and Erik's love of Christine. What greater inspiration to an artist than love? XD I'd certainly LOVE to read a first-person history of Erik without "Sherlocking" him. I can see why people like it in Kay, because I like Sherlock in Sherlock! Lol. I think there's an audience out there who'd appreciate a true-Leroux Erik though. It might not be AS popular, just like the 2004 Gerard movie is more popular than many other versions, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. This is an interesting argument. I think Leroux like The-Savage-Nymph said left a lot to the imagination. His third person speaking does make Leroux's version creepier to me Kay's novel. And more psychotic. Kay's version actually seems more like a child to me than Leroux's version. Leroux's Erik seems to me to be very much a "ghost" or a "monster". He is less personable, less understandable while Kay's since you've been reading about his whole life and his inner most thoughts it's easier to get to know him and understand him. I too would like to see a Leroux Erik backstory. It would be interesting to see what had happened in his life. But then again wouldn't the addition of the backstory make him less psychotic to the audience and easier to understand? I feel like the only way to give him a backstory is to "Sherlock" him up a bit. Or to make him "debonair" because it's easier to write than a creepy, bordering on psychotic man. Or I think that adding the backstory would remove the psychotic aspect of him which would remove a part of who he is in the original. I don't know...a person who could really delve into LErik's mind would have to write it for it to be any good. |
|
|
|
Post by salierisantfarm on Dec 28, 2011 18:33:52 GMT -6
I really want to try and write this now. (Key word here being "try.")
And about wulphe's comment that Erik is creepy and psychotic rather than squishy and innocent, why can't he be all four? 1. He's creepy because he has all of these emotions and pretty much no self control, also lack of social skills. 2. He's psychotic because, well, he's psychotic. 3. He's squishy because he is rotting. 4. He's innocent because of lack of experience with the ladies.
That was mainly me being silly, but I really do see Lerik as being a squishy and innocent guy... just in a very creepy and psychotic way because he doesn't know how to handle himself. Basically, "WHERE DO I PUT ALL OF THESE FEELINGS??"
|
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 28, 2011 19:41:07 GMT -6
3. He's squishy because he is rotting. Ahahahahaha.... 4. He's innocent because of lack of experience with the ladies. Hahahaha because he doesn't know how to handle himself. Basically, "WHERE DO I PUT ALL OF THESE FEELINGS??" Where indeed...hahaha I'm just sitting here at work laughing to myself...don't mind me...hahaha |
|
wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
|
Post by wulphe on Dec 28, 2011 22:51:44 GMT -6
Lmao! I'm actually (slowly) working on a Leroux-Erik story. I love his craziness because I CAN identify with him! It's pretty rare for me to have that link with a character, hence my obsession. Lol. He's difficult to write because most people have never experienced that kind of crazy.
Also, I'm not trying to be confrontational, though I know I can seem like that. I get very excited about my theories! Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, and I do respect that. I enjoy this debate, and I want to continue contributing wherever I can. You all actually help me quite a bit in sorting out my ideas. I don't usually put this much detail into thoughts and I'm learning more and more about Erik every time I think about it. Maybe someday I'll be able to do him justice, hehe. ^.^
|
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 29, 2011 0:16:20 GMT -6
He's difficult to write because most people have never experienced that kind of crazy. That is very true...he is just a difficult person to write because you're not sure what he would do. He's kind of unpredictable. Also, I'm not trying to be confrontational, though I know I can seem like that. I get very excited about my theories! Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, and I do respect that. I enjoy this debate, and I want to continue contributing wherever I can. You all actually help me quite a bit in sorting out my ideas. I don't usually put this much detail into thoughts and I'm learning more and more about Erik every time I think about it. Maybe someday I'll be able to do him justice, hehe. ^.^ Oh I never thought you were being confrontational. I love all the different opinions and that everyone feels comfortable enough to discuss and express differing points of view and respect other points of view as well! So keep 'em coming! |
|
|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 29, 2011 1:39:29 GMT -6
Lmao! I'm actually (slowly) working on a Leroux-Erik story. I love his craziness because I CAN identify with him! It's pretty rare for me to have that link with a character, hence my obsession. Lol. He's difficult to write because most people have never experienced that kind of crazy. Also, I'm not trying to be confrontational, though I know I can seem like that. I get very excited about my theories! Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, and I do respect that. I enjoy this debate, and I want to continue contributing wherever I can. You all actually help me quite a bit in sorting out my ideas. I don't usually put this much detail into thoughts and I'm learning more and more about Erik every time I think about it. Maybe someday I'll be able to do him justice, hehe. ^.^ So, you stalk sopranos to and drop chandeliers? *just kidding* I think every fan of Erik can relate in one way or the other, otherwise... well, they wouldn't be fans really. I just was a bit... intimidated by the largeness(?) of your post. I was like "what did I do? Is she mad at me? No!" You gave me a Christine feeling... Me being Christine and you Erik, know what I mean? And about Leroux Erik... I'd really love to read your backstory! It sure will be very interesting. KErik is okay for me, but like I said before "Phantom" is the best written Fanfiction there is to me. but it's a fanfiction nontheless. Nothing can top "Le fantôme de l'Opéra", non? |
|
wulphe
Chorus
au chapeau de feutre.
Posts: 237
|
Post by wulphe on Dec 29, 2011 15:50:03 GMT -6
Lmao! I'm actually (slowly) working on a Leroux-Erik story. I love his craziness because I CAN identify with him! It's pretty rare for me to have that link with a character, hence my obsession. Lol. He's difficult to write because most people have never experienced that kind of crazy. Also, I'm not trying to be confrontational, though I know I can seem like that. I get very excited about my theories! Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, and I do respect that. I enjoy this debate, and I want to continue contributing wherever I can. You all actually help me quite a bit in sorting out my ideas. I don't usually put this much detail into thoughts and I'm learning more and more about Erik every time I think about it. Maybe someday I'll be able to do him justice, hehe. ^.^ So, you stalk sopranos to and drop chandeliers? *just kidding* I think every fan of Erik can relate in one way or the other, otherwise... well, they wouldn't be fans really. I just was a bit... intimidated by the largeness(?) of your post. I was like "what did I do? Is she mad at me? No!" You gave me a Christine feeling... Me being Christine and you Erik, know what I mean? And about Leroux Erik... I'd really love to read your backstory! It sure will be very interesting. KErik is okay for me, but like I said before "Phantom" is the best written Fanfiction there is to me. but it's a fanfiction nontheless. Nothing can top "Le fantôme de l'Opéra", non? Hmm.. I haven't dropped a chandelier or stalked a soprano yet, but I have had a mental breakdown over someone I loved, and I'm ashamed in retrospect, that I handled it about as well as Erik. Except, there was no dynamite. Just severe amounts of emotional trauma for everyone involved.  Yeah... that's the other thing I do. I'm very impassioned and... intense, and this shows in paragraph form. It seems to drive people around me crazy. I live in art and music and I obsess over everything I love, and I love many things, especially small details. This is why my best friend usually has to take month-long vacations after visiting me.  I'd love to read my back story too! Right now, it's all in my head and I can't get it out! I'm kinda still getting a feel for it, and trying to decide exactly what I want to do. I feel like I could gauge LErik's reactions to many situations, I'm just not sure what situations I want to write about. Someday though! (And I keep getting distracted by this nagging urge to write a parody fic with LErik terrorizing some phangirls). I do agree that Kay is the best fanfiction I've seen so far. Sometimes I think Muirin007 writes a better KErik than Kay did though. XD |
|
|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 29, 2011 16:07:23 GMT -6
So, you stalk sopranos to and drop chandeliers? *just kidding* I think every fan of Erik can relate in one way or the other, otherwise... well, they wouldn't be fans really. I just was a bit... intimidated by the largeness(?) of your post. I was like "what did I do? Is she mad at me? No!" You gave me a Christine feeling... Me being Christine and you Erik, know what I mean? And about Leroux Erik... I'd really love to read your backstory! It sure will be very interesting. KErik is okay for me, but like I said before "Phantom" is the best written Fanfiction there is to me. but it's a fanfiction nontheless. Nothing can top "Le fantôme de l'Opéra", non? Hmm.. I haven't dropped a chandelier or stalked a soprano yet, but I have had a mental breakdown over someone I loved, and I'm ashamed in retrospect, that I handled it about as well as Erik. Except, there was no dynamite. Just severe amounts of emotional trauma for everyone involved. Yeah... that's the other thing I do. I'm very impassioned and... intense, and this shows in paragraph form. It seems to drive people around me crazy. I live in art and music and I obsess over everything I love, and I love many things, especially small details. This is why my best friend usually has to take month-long vacations after visiting me. I'd love to read my back story too! Right now, it's all in my head and I can't get it out! I'm kinda still getting a feel for it, and trying to decide exactly what I want to do. I feel like I could gauge LErik's reactions to many situations, I'm just not sure what situations I want to write about. Someday though! (And I keep getting distracted by this nagging urge to write a parody fic with LErik terrorizing some phangirls). I do agree that Kay is the best fanfiction I've seen so far. Sometimes I think Muirin007 writes a better KErik than Kay did though. XD I do too know about emotional drama. A lot. My biggest problem would be that, if I fall for someone... I fall HARD! I could very well do without the rest of the world, if only that one person would be happy and with me. Speaking of living under an opra... I wouldn't mind. Too bad my potential loveinterest always is the social kind. XD Well, you can't really drive me crazy, for I already am some kind of crazy according to my girlfriend and I really can understand your point of view. It just comes accross as kind of intense. But that's okay. I do like discussing all kind of phantomy things with you. And I like you. Lets fuzz over small details together! Like: Why is everybody going on about Christine marrying a Vicomte and forgetting that Meg actually marries a Baron? My advice: Simply start writing. That's the only way for me to get anything done XD Why don't you write the Sultan Part? Leroux says that Erik worked first for the Schah of Persia, then for the Sultan, and Madame Kay never seemed to bother. Oh, Muirin has her very own MErik, if you ask me. Inspired perhaps by KErik, but still her own. |
|
|
|
Post by salierisantfarm on Dec 29, 2011 20:08:38 GMT -6
So, you stalk sopranos to and drop chandeliers? *just kidding* I think every fan of Erik can relate in one way or the other, otherwise... well, they wouldn't be fans really. I just was a bit... intimidated by the largeness(?) of your post. I was like "what did I do? Is she mad at me? No!" You gave me a Christine feeling... Me being Christine and you Erik, know what I mean? And about Leroux Erik... I'd really love to read your backstory! It sure will be very interesting. KErik is okay for me, but like I said before "Phantom" is the best written Fanfiction there is to me. but it's a fanfiction nontheless. Nothing can top "Le fantôme de l'Opéra", non? Hmm.. I haven't dropped a chandelier or stalked a soprano yet, but I have had a mental breakdown over someone I loved, and I'm ashamed in retrospect, that I handled it about as well as Erik. Except, there was no dynamite. Just severe amounts of emotional trauma for everyone involved. Yeah... that's the other thing I do. I'm very impassioned and... intense, and this shows in paragraph form. It seems to drive people around me crazy. I live in art and music and I obsess over everything I love, and I love many things, especially small details. This is why my best friend usually has to take month-long vacations after visiting me. I'd love to read my back story too! Right now, it's all in my head and I can't get it out! I'm kinda still getting a feel for it, and trying to decide exactly what I want to do. I feel like I could gauge LErik's reactions to many situations, I'm just not sure what situations I want to write about. Someday though! (And I keep getting distracted by this nagging urge to write a parody fic with LErik terrorizing some phangirls). I do agree that Kay is the best fanfiction I've seen so far. Sometimes I think Muirin007 writes a better KErik than Kay did though. XD That's me, too! I get really intensely fixated on the things/people I love, to the point where I sometimes end up driving them away. Not so much anymore, though. But yeah. Awkward times in 8th grade. I try not to be confrontational most of the time because I don't want to come off as a total frying-pan, but I like that you have the confidence to state your opinions. Often with me it's like "Sign of argument? HIDE." |
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 29, 2011 21:14:10 GMT -6
Yeah... that's the other thing I do. I'm very impassioned and... intense, and this shows in paragraph form. It seems to drive people around me crazy. I live in art and music and I obsess over everything I love, and I love many things, especially small details. This is why my best friend usually has to take month-long vacations after visiting me. I totally understand that. I get very...obsessed with things for a long amount of time. And then I find something else to add on to my long list of obsessions. I have several things that I'm obsessed but the intensity of the obsession gets higher or lower depending on I guess what's happening in my life. But I live in movies and music and stories. It's kind of frustrating because a lot of people that I know in real life don't understand what I'm talking about. Even my own parents say that I'm strange...oh well. |
|
|
|
Post by salierisantfarm on Dec 30, 2011 10:59:53 GMT -6
Yeah... that's the other thing I do. I'm very impassioned and... intense, and this shows in paragraph form. It seems to drive people around me crazy. I live in art and music and I obsess over everything I love, and I love many things, especially small details. This is why my best friend usually has to take month-long vacations after visiting me. I totally understand that. I get very...obsessed with things for a long amount of time. And then I find something else to add on to my long list of obsessions. I have several things that I'm obsessed but the intensity of the obsession gets higher or lower depending on I guess what's happening in my life. But I live in movies and music and stories. It's kind of frustrating because a lot of people that I know in real life don't understand what I'm talking about. Even my own parents say that I'm strange...oh well. UGH, I KNOW!! You make a reference to something, laugh really hard, and everybody looks at you like you should be institutionalized. What all are you obsessed with? |
|
|
|
Post by The-Savage-Nymph on Dec 30, 2011 11:19:26 GMT -6
I totally understand that. I get very...obsessed with things for a long amount of time. And then I find something else to add on to my long list of obsessions. I have several things that I'm obsessed but the intensity of the obsession gets higher or lower depending on I guess what's happening in my life. But I live in movies and music and stories. It's kind of frustrating because a lot of people that I know in real life don't understand what I'm talking about. Even my own parents say that I'm strange...oh well. UGH, I KNOW!! You make a reference to something, laugh really hard, and everybody looks at you like you should be institutionalized. What all are you obsessed with? "Movies, music and Stories" like most of us I should think XD |
|
|
|
Post by salierisantfarm on Dec 30, 2011 11:20:30 GMT -6
UGH, I KNOW!! You make a reference to something, laugh really hard, and everybody looks at you like you should be institutionalized. What all are you obsessed with? "Movies, music and Stories" like most of us I should think XD Oh derp derp derp. XD |
|
|
|
Post by asianorange on Dec 30, 2011 12:59:19 GMT -6
"Movies, music and Stories" like most of us I should think XD Oh derp derp derp. XD Hahaha well if you want like specific movies or fandoms or stories or music I can list them... I'm gonna make a new thread in the Books, Movies and Theater section and then everyone can list them! Yay! |
|
